Discussion:
The snake prove reposted
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Fabrizio J Bonsignore
2012-06-21 08:05:39 UTC
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https://twitter.com/syntotic/status/215344509976985600

The picture is inspiration. A snake rover has some advantages. For
one, it is a time tested DESIGN, usable in barren land, water,
branched environments. For two, if properly implemented it is self
redundant and for an artificial implementation self correcting by
splitting and reassemblying. For three, It is divisible into more than
one rover if needed. For four, it can be coiled and compacted even for
big snakes, easily transportable. For five, it may include no outer
movable pieces, all junctures can be made internal save for receptors
and efectors. For six, snakes are able to move very quicly or very
slowly naturally, it is inherent in the form.

Snake brains are not so big, approach the size of birds more than
other small animal, so control ought to be ultimately simple and
simply consistent; without having to control complex gaits nor
indepent limbs coordination. I have already advanced this idea, to
mimic more natural muscular structures for machine design than simply
liineal movement like in cranes.

Shouldnt be hard to understand the secrets of snake muscularity and it
can be studied on many species, most abundant without fear of
extinction, to develop an artificial implementation.

This text should be more inspired but I insist that this city is a
hostile land lacking adequate medical care and detractors to these
texts have ways to use health attacks as their weapon. IT is getting a
toil not being paid attention to effectively. With a mimic
doppelganger rushing somewhere in the system, this text is as best
protection as implementing the idea privately, which is against their
convenience but much to mine.

Danilo J Bonsignore
Fabrizio J Bonsignore
2012-06-21 08:12:03 UTC
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Ah, OK, the first post was ommitted. This one appears at a later time,
of course. Behaviour is different from what I was used to, with
immediate postings and no delay, nor moderator vetoes.

Danilo J Bonsignore
Fabrizio J Bonsignore
2012-06-21 14:34:28 UTC
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One concern though would be the amount of energy it would spend as
compared to other forms of locomotion. Snakes spend long periods
resting (after eating). They also move very slowly save when preying.
Actually I would say snakes move at the speed of PROBES! A snake probe
might need more energy than, say, a six legged spider.

It would be a very biblical probe, too! Like in the tree of knowledge:
**>>>and the snake probe...**. Not my viewpoint but the parallelism
would be striking.

SF: the biblical snake went so famous because it was a probe from
outer space...

Oh, c mon, do not tell me now that you already have it! And it is
somewhere around but... (Nobody would be thinking of anything, right?)

Danilo J Bonsignore
Greg (Strider) Moore
2012-06-21 16:03:29 UTC
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Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
https://twitter.com/syntotic/status/215344509976985600
The picture is inspiration. A snake rover has some advantages. For
one, it is a time tested DESIGN, usable in barren land, water,
branched environments.
Umm, it has very little testing.... as a rover. Hell, there's more species
of animals with legs than snakes.

This should mean that rovers should walk around. Yet, we find wheels work
better.
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
For two, if properly implemented it is self
redundant and for an artificial implementation self correcting by
splitting and reassemblying.
How many snakes in the real-world do this? Hint, I can count them on less
than one hand.
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
For three, It is divisible into more than
one rover if needed. For four, it can be coiled and compacted even for
big snakes, easily transportable. For five, it may include no outer
movable pieces, all junctures can be made internal save for receptors
and efectors.
So except for the major components... again.. no real advantage.
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
For six, snakes are able to move very quicly or very
slowly naturally, it is inherent in the form.
Snake brains are not so big, approach the size of birds more than
other small animal, so control ought to be ultimately simple and
simply consistent; without having to control complex gaits nor
indepent limbs coordination. I have already advanced this idea, to
mimic more natural muscular structures for machine design than simply
liineal movement like in cranes.
Brain sizes are pretty irrelevant here.
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
Shouldnt be hard to understand the secrets of snake muscularity and it
can be studied on many species, most abundant without fear of
extinction, to develop an artificial implementation.
Huh?
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
This text should be more inspired but I insist that this city is a
hostile land lacking adequate medical care and detractors to these
texts have ways to use health attacks as their weapon. IT is getting a
toil not being paid attention to effectively. With a mimic
doppelganger rushing somewhere in the system, this text is as best
protection as implementing the idea privately, which is against their
convenience but much to mine.
Danilo J Bonsignore
Look, the idea of a "snake-based" probe isn't that outlandish. I've seen
such proposals before.
BUT, making it sound as simple as you have, shows a serious lack of
understanding.

It certainly may have some advantages, but I think you grossly underestimate
how much work would be involved in creating even just a prototype.
--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
Jeff Findley
2012-06-25 12:15:43 UTC
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Post by Greg (Strider) Moore
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
https://twitter.com/syntotic/status/215344509976985600
The picture is inspiration. A snake rover has some advantages. For
one, it is a time tested DESIGN, usable in barren land, water,
branched environments.
Umm, it has very little testing.... as a rover. Hell, there's more species
of animals with legs than snakes.
This should mean that rovers should walk around. Yet, we find wheels work
better.
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
For two, if properly implemented it is self
redundant and for an artificial implementation self correcting by
splitting and reassemblying.
How many snakes in the real-world do this? Hint, I can count them on less
than one hand.
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
For three, It is divisible into more than
one rover if needed. For four, it can be coiled and compacted even for
big snakes, easily transportable. For five, it may include no outer
movable pieces, all junctures can be made internal save for receptors
and efectors.
So except for the major components... again.. no real advantage.
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
For six, snakes are able to move very quicly or very
slowly naturally, it is inherent in the form.
Snake brains are not so big, approach the size of birds more than
other small animal, so control ought to be ultimately simple and
simply consistent; without having to control complex gaits nor
indepent limbs coordination. I have already advanced this idea, to
mimic more natural muscular structures for machine design than simply
liineal movement like in cranes.
Brain sizes are pretty irrelevant here.
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
Shouldnt be hard to understand the secrets of snake muscularity and it
can be studied on many species, most abundant without fear of
extinction, to develop an artificial implementation.
Huh?
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
This text should be more inspired but I insist that this city is a
hostile land lacking adequate medical care and detractors to these
texts have ways to use health attacks as their weapon. IT is getting a
toil not being paid attention to effectively. With a mimic
doppelganger rushing somewhere in the system, this text is as best
protection as implementing the idea privately, which is against their
convenience but much to mine.
Danilo J Bonsignore
Look, the idea of a "snake-based" probe isn't that outlandish. I've seen
such proposals before.
BUT, making it sound as simple as you have, shows a serious lack of
understanding.
It certainly may have some advantages, but I think you grossly underestimate
how much work would be involved in creating even just a prototype.
And if you did create a prototype, it would be interesting to compare it
to a wheeled rover and a walking rover. You'd want to do this on a test
ground modeled after the surface of Mars. You'd base the course on what
we know from the probes that have already flown. Let the best prototype
win!

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. ;) "
- tinker
Greg (Strider) Moore
2012-06-27 13:00:17 UTC
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Post by Jeff Findley
And if you did create a prototype, it would be interesting to compare it
to a wheeled rover and a walking rover. You'd want to do this on a test
ground modeled after the surface of Mars. You'd base the course on what
we know from the probes that have already flown. Let the best prototype
win!
Jeff
Agreed.

I don't think the idea of a "snake" based rover for various uses is all that
out there (and I believe some research has been done.)

I just don't think it's the panacea the original poster did.
--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
Fabrizio J. Bonsignore syntotic
2012-08-09 00:35:41 UTC
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On Jun 27, 9:00 am, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
Post by Greg (Strider) Moore
I just don't think it's the panacea the original poster did.
--
Greg D. Moore                  http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses.http://www.quicr.net
(Arent we all selling Panaceas? Ask Nature:)

Big point is: we find snakes everywhere! They are good in SANDS. They
are good in TREES. They are good in WATER. They are good on ROCKS.
They are good on grass, deserts, woods, moving sands? They climb and
slide and dig and saim.

So now I ask: If the Mars probe, (just landed), wants to find evidence
of Life... why was it made to land in an ANTIQUE CRATER??? Isnt it
like trying to find cats in a VOLCANO?

(Yeah, Nature did not stop in snakes, it produced US, but do you want
to down investigate a sewers tube? Mmh?)

Danilo J Bonsignore
Pubkeybreaker
2012-08-09 22:43:02 UTC
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On Aug 8, 8:35 pm, "Fabrizio J. Bonsignore syntotic"
Post by Fabrizio J. Bonsignore syntotic
On Jun 27, 9:00 am, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
Post by Greg (Strider) Moore
I just don't think it's the panacea the original poster did.
--
Greg D. Moore                  http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses.http://www.quicr.net
(Arent we all selling Panaceas? Ask Nature:)
Big point is: we find snakes everywhere! They are good in SANDS. They
are good in TREES. They are good in WATER. They are good on ROCKS.
They are good on grass, deserts, woods, moving sands? They climb and
slide and dig and saim.
So now I ask: If the Mars probe, (just landed), wants to find evidence
of Life... why was it made to land in an ANTIQUE CRATER??? Isnt it
like trying to find cats in a VOLCANO?
(Yeah, Nature did not stop in snakes, it produced US, but do you want
to down investigate a sewers tube? Mmh?)
Danilo J Bonsignore
A constructive suggestion:

Join the discussion groups at www.mersenneforum.org

You may find a more favorable reception there.

Fabrizio J. Bonsignore syntotic
2012-08-09 00:29:44 UTC
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Hi! Happy Mars-ing!

On Jun 21, 12:03 pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
For two, if properly implemented it is self
redundant and for an artificial implementation self correcting by
splitting and reassemblying.
How many snakes in the real-world do this?  Hint, I can count them on less
than one hand.
Oh, you found a few! :)
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
For five, it may include no outer
movable pieces, all junctures can be made internal save for receptors
and efectors.
So except for the major components... again.. no real advantage.
Mobility, basically, but maybe reprogrammability? Yeah, I see the
point. small parts still small parts and protruding. But maybe major
parts can be standardized and factory produced to lower costs and
accomodate private company designs...
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
For six, snakes are able to move very quicly or very
slowly naturally, it is inherent in the form.
Snake brains are not so big, approach the size of birds more than
other small animal, so control ought to be ultimately simple and
simply consistent; without having to control complex gaits nor
indepent limbs coordination. I have already advanced this idea, to
mimic more natural muscular structures for machine design than simply
liineal movement like in cranes.
Brain sizes are pretty irrelevant here.
Depends... but that is the point. If brain size would not matter
because nature uses the minimum and works, we have more experiment
oriented payload.
Post by Fabrizio J Bonsignore
Shouldnt be hard to understand the secrets of snake muscularity and it
can be studied on many species, most abundant without fear of
extinction, to develop an artificial implementation.
Huh?
Snakes move in a kind of sinusoidal walk. HOW exactly are snake
muscles conformed that they are biologically efficient? Different from
Human muscles, surely...
Look, the idea of a "snake-based" probe isn't that outlandish.  I've seen
such proposals before.
BUT, making it sound as simple as you have, shows a serious lack of
understanding.
Not really! Provide references, I am writing in the cold, but the
basic design idea is sound, surely.
It certainly may have some advantages, but I think you grossly underestimate
how much work would be involved in creating even just a prototype.
Not work, but BUDGET. I think it would be a competitive proposal for
an R&D company. I would participate, of course.

Danilo J Bonsignore
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