Discussion:
"As a convicted felon, he wasn't allowed to possess weapons." 100 unenforced NY Democrat gun laws killed firefighters.
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Too_Many_Tools
2012-12-27 17:36:37 UTC
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God Damn those fucking murdering Democrats!

Those firemen would be alive today if Democrats had simply
enforced the law.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/25/firefighter
s-shot-new-york-webster/1790293/

One of the weapons recovered was a .233-caliber semiautomatic
Bushmaster rifle with flash suppression, the same make and
caliber gun used in the Newtown, Conn., shootings.

WEBSTER, N.Y. -- Investigators combing the scene Tuesday of a
Christmas Eve ambush that killed two firefighters and injured
two others made a grisly discovery: another victim.

The body is believed to be that of Cheryl Spengler, 67, of
Webster. Police say her brother, William Spengler Jr., set a
deadly trap for first responders -- a plan he detailed in a
chilling note found at the scene.

The remains found the home were taken to the Medical Examiner's
Office for an autopsy. The cause of death was not immediately
known, Pickering said.

Armed with a Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle — the same
weapon used in the Dec. 14 school massacre in Newtown, Conn. — a
Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun and a .38 caliber Smith & Wesson
revolver and a stockpile of ammunition, Spengler Jr. set a
"clear ambush on first responders," Webster Police Chief Gerald
Pickering said at a news conference Tuesday.

Spengler used that arsenal to follow through on threats he made
in a typewritten note discovered not far from where police found
his body.

"I still have to get ready to see how much of the neighborhood I
can burn down and do what I like doing best: killing people,"
Spengler wrote in the note, which Pickering described as
rambling, two to three pages long, and did not address motive.
Spengler died Monday of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the
head.

The full note was not released by police.

"Motive is always the burning question," Pickering said at an
afternoon news conference. "I'm not sure we'll ever really know
what was going through his mind."

Spengler's attack killed volunteer firefighters Mike
Chiapperini, 43, and Tomasz Kaczowka, 19, and severely injured
firefighters Joseph Hofstetter, 33, and Theodore Scardino, 48,
who are in stable condition at Strong Memorial Hospital. An off-
duty Greece, N.Y., police officer, John Ritter, was injured by
shrapnel while attempting to protect the fallen firefighters
with his car. He was treated and has been released from an area
hospital. Pickering described his actions as heroic.

Roger Vercruysse of Rochester, N.Y., said he lived next door to
William and Cheryl Spengler, in 2005 and 2006.

He said Spengler was "nice," and was never in trouble while
Vercruysse knew him. But, he said, Spengler and his sister
clearly had a strained relationship.

"They never got along. He told me he did not care for her. And
when I asked him why, he got angry."

He loved his mother, and took her to the store and doctors."

Vercruysse also said Spengler "couldn't stand his sister" and
"stayed on one side of the house and she stayed on the other."

Pickering said it was not known which weapon Spengler used to
shoot the four firefighters.

"We're assuming it was the rifle, because of the distance." That
rifle, he said, was equipped with a flash suppressor, intended
to reduce the visibility of a shooter during firing.

Once police arrived near the scene, shortly after the 5:35 a.m.
fire call, "it was a combat condition," Pickering said. "They
were shooting at muzzle flash."

He also said it was not clear how many bullets were fired during
the predawn attack. But what was clear, Pickering said, was that
the first responding police officer exchanged gunfire with
Spengler and that officer's actions "saved many lives."

A portion of Lake Road on Tuesday afternoon remained closed to
traffic, though most residents are being allowed back into their
homes, and power has been largely restored.

Officials said they hope to reopen Lake Road to traffic late
Tuesday. They also plan to block off the burned homes with a
snow fence.

About a dozen investigators Tuesday sifted through the debris of
the seven houses destroyed by fire. Firefighters on Tuesday also
extinguished hotspots at two homes.

Pickering cautioned that people returning to their homes after
being evacuated by SWAT teams Monday may find that their doors
were kicked in. Locked homes in the area were searched for the
shooter during the chaos.

Monroe County Fire Coordinator Sam DeRosa said it was unclear
how long the fire investigation would take.

DeRosa also said officials "are working against the weather" and
a pending snowstorm.

Fire investigators are working to determine the cause and origin
of the blaze, which they said appeared to be intentionally set
by Spengler as a trap, he said.

"There were some brave actions by a lot of people yesterday,
both firefighters and individual police officers," said State
Police Maj. Mark Koss. "We'll do our best to see what motivated
this guy to do the things he did."

About 100 people attended an impromptu memorial vigil Monday
evening in Webster, a suburb of Rochester. Dozens of bouquets
were left at the fire station, along with a handwritten sign
that said, "Thanks for protecting us. RIP."

Authorities said Spengler hadn't done anything to bring himself
to their attention since his parole. As a convicted felon, he
wasn't allowed to possess weapons. Monroe County District
Attorney Sandra Doorley said Spengler led a very quiet life
after he got out of prison.

A friend said Spengler hated his sister. Roger Vercruysse lived
next door to Spengler and recalled a man who doted on his
mother, whose obituary suggested contributions to the West
Webster Fire Department.

STORY: 4 firefighters shot, 2 killed at Webster, N.Y., fire

The West Webster Fire District learned of the fire after a
report of a car and house on fire on Lake Road, on a narrow
peninsula where Irondequoit Bay meets Lake Ontario, Monroe
County Sheriff Patrick O'Flynn said.

Emergency radio communications capture someone saying he "could
see the muzzle flash coming at me" as Spengler carried out his
ambush. The audio posted on the website RadioReference.com has
someone reporting "firefighters are down" and saying "got to be
rifle or shotgun - high powered … semi or fully auto."

Two of the firefighters arrived on a fire engine and two in
their own vehicles, Pickering said. After Spengler fired, one of
the wounded men fled, but the other three couldn't because of
flying gunfire.

The police officer who exchanged gunfire with Spengler "in all
likelihood saved many lives," Pickering said.

A police armored vehicle was used to recover two men, and
eventually it removed 33 people from nearby homes, the police
chief said. The gunfire initially kept firefighters from
battling the blazes.

The dead men were identified as police Lt. Michael Chiapperini,
43, the Webster Police Department's public information officer;
and 19-year-old Tomasz Kaczowka, also a 911 dispatcher.

Pickering described Chiapperini as a "lifetime firefighter" with
nearly 20 years in the department, and he called Kaczowka a
"tremendous young man."

Kaczowka's brother, reached at the family home Monday night,
said he didn't want to talk.

Hofstetter, also a full-timer with the Rochester Fire
Department, was hit once in the pelvis, and the bullet lodged in
his spine, authorities said. Scardino was hit in the chest and
knee.

Cathy Bartlett was at a vigil Monday night with her teenage son,
who was good friends with Kaczowka. Bartlett's husband, Mark
Bartlett, has been a firefighter there for 25 years but missed
the call this morning.

"Thank God my husband slept through the first alarm and didn't
get up until the second one went off," she said.

The shooting and fires were in a neighborhood of seasonal and
year-round homes set close together across the road from the
lakeshore. The area is popular with recreational boaters but is
normally quiet this time of year.

"We have very few calls for service in that location," Pickering
said. "Webster is a tremendous community. We are a safe
community, and to have a tragedy befall us like this is just
horrendous."

Gov. Andrew Cuomo said the State Police and Office of Emergency
Management were working with local authorities.

"Volunteer firefighters and police officers were injured and two
were taken from us as they once again answered the call of
duty," Cuomo said in a statement. "We as the community of New
York mourn their loss as now two more families must spend the
holidays without their loved ones."

Webster, a middle-class suburb, now is the scene of violence
linked to house fires for two Decembers in a row.

Last Dec. 7, authorities say, a 15-year-old boy doused his home
with gasoline and set it ablaze, killing his father and two
brothers, 16 and 12. His mother and 13-year-old sister escaped
with injuries. He is being prosecuted as an adult.
M.I.Wakefield
2012-12-28 03:36:11 UTC
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Post by Too_Many_Tools
God Damn those fucking murdering Democrats!
Those firemen would be alive today if Democrats had simply
enforced the law.
You mean the law that exempts gun show sales from criminal background
checks?
Gunner
2012-12-28 08:49:03 UTC
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Post by M.I.Wakefield
Post by Too_Many_Tools
God Damn those fucking murdering Democrats!
Those firemen would be alive today if Democrats had simply
enforced the law.
You mean the law that exempts gun show sales from criminal background
checks?
What law is that? Be specific. Use as much white space as necessary.

Try California as an example.


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
pyotr filipivich
2012-12-29 23:38:27 UTC
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Post by Gunner
Post by M.I.Wakefield
Post by Too_Many_Tools
God Damn those fucking murdering Democrats!
Those firemen would be alive today if Democrats had simply
enforced the law.
You mean the law that exempts gun show sales from criminal background
checks?
What law is that? Be specific. Use as much white space as necessary.
And the idiot is going to have a good time demonstrating how a gun
store is a "gun show". But logic is not even his weak suit.

--
pyotr filipivich
Most journalists these days couldn't investigate a missing chocolate cake
at a pre-school without a Democrat office holder telling them what to look for,
where, and why it is Geroge Bush's fault.

Stormin Mormon
2012-12-28 13:35:32 UTC
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I think he means the law in NYS that makes it
illegal for felons to purchase, or possess firearms.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Post by Too_Many_Tools
God Damn those fucking murdering Democrats!
Those firemen would be alive today if Democrats had simply
enforced the law.
You mean the law that exempts gun show sales from criminal background
checks?
Oglethorpe
2012-12-29 03:52:05 UTC
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Post by M.I.Wakefield
Post by Too_Many_Tools
God Damn those fucking murdering Democrats!
Those firemen would be alive today if Democrats had simply
enforced the law.
You mean the law that exempts gun show sales from criminal background
checks?
The guns were a straw purchse by a neighbor, MORON.
M.I.Wakefield
2012-12-29 02:23:25 UTC
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Post by Oglethorpe
The guns were a straw purchse by a neighbor, MORON.
Yep. We found that out after that message was posted ... and it doesn't
mean shutting down the gun show exemption wouldn't be a good thing.
RD Sandman
2012-12-29 04:55:25 UTC
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Post by M.I.Wakefield
Post by Oglethorpe
The guns were a straw purchse by a neighbor, MORON.
Yep. We found that out after that message was posted ... and it doesn't
mean shutting down the gun show exemption wouldn't be a good thing.
What gun show exemption is that? You do realize that all laws that apply
outside a gun show also apply inside one, don't you? There are even some
laws that apply to gunshows that do not apply outside of one in a couple
of states.
--
Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman

If law school is so hard to get through....
how come there are so many lawyers?
Scout
2012-12-29 05:55:16 UTC
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Post by M.I.Wakefield
Post by Oglethorpe
The guns were a straw purchse by a neighbor, MORON.
Yep. We found that out after that message was posted ... and it doesn't
mean shutting down the gun show exemption wouldn't be a good thing.
There is no gun show exemption.
RD Sandman
2012-12-29 03:28:09 UTC
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Post by M.I.Wakefield
Post by Too_Many_Tools
God Damn those fucking murdering Democrats!
Those firemen would be alive today if Democrats had simply
enforced the law.
You mean the law that exempts gun show sales from criminal background
checks?
What law is that? Care to produce it? Or do you mean the one that
exempts most private firearms sales from the background check
requirement? That is whether you are at a gun show or in your backyard.
I assumed you knew that. There is not one that specifically exempts gun
shows.
--
Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman

If law school is so hard to get through....
how come there are so many lawyers?
M.I.Wakefield
2012-12-29 04:08:47 UTC
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Post by RD Sandman
What law is that? Care to produce it? Or do you mean the one that
exempts most private firearms sales from the background check
requirement? That is whether you are at a gun show or in your backyard.
I assumed you knew that. There is not one that specifically exempts gun
shows.
Yep; but it's commonly referred to as the "gun show loophole", not the
"private sale loophole".

But that's not going to stop some idiot from stepping up for a straw-man
purchase ... at least until a straw-man purchaser gets life without parole
after a gun they bought for somebody else is used in a homicide.
RD Sandman
2012-12-29 05:30:45 UTC
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Post by M.I.Wakefield
Post by RD Sandman
What law is that? Care to produce it? Or do you mean the one that
exempts most private firearms sales from the background check
requirement? That is whether you are at a gun show or in your
backyard. I assumed you knew that. There is not one that
specifically exempts gun shows.
Yep; but it's commonly referred to as the "gun show loophole", not the
"private sale loophole".
Well, it is called that but it really isn't a loophole. It is an
intentional exemption in the law whereas a true loophole is an error that
allows a way around the intent of a law. Since the common citizen is
prevented by law from running background checks it doesn't fit the
loophole definition. However, be that as it may, it does allow for sales
between individuals without a background check. The fix will have to be
done at the state level like 16 other states have done since the feds do
not have constitutional authority to control sales of private property
between individuals within a state. I just wanted to make sure you
didn't think that there was an actual loophole.
Post by M.I.Wakefield
But that's not going to stop some idiot from stepping up for a
straw-man purchase ... at least until a straw-man purchaser gets life
without parole after a gun they bought for somebody else is used in a
homicide.
That could work.......
--
Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman

If law school is so hard to get through....
how come there are so many lawyers?
Scout
2012-12-29 05:57:18 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by M.I.Wakefield
Post by RD Sandman
What law is that? Care to produce it? Or do you mean the one that
exempts most private firearms sales from the background check
requirement? That is whether you are at a gun show or in your backyard.
I assumed you knew that. There is not one that specifically exempts gun
shows.
Yep; but it's commonly referred to as the "gun show loophole", not the
"private sale loophole".
Yea and you could call it a 'rose' as well, but it wouldn't be that either.
Post by M.I.Wakefield
But that's not going to stop some idiot from stepping up for a straw-man
purchase ... at least until a straw-man purchaser gets life without parole
after a gun they bought for somebody else is used in a homicide.
Na, just a mandatory minimum sentence of 5 year in Club Fed, for both the
straw purchaser and the person obtaining the gun.

You suppose a harsher sentence would really change anything?
Gunner
2012-12-29 06:12:45 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by M.I.Wakefield
Post by RD Sandman
What law is that? Care to produce it? Or do you mean the one that
exempts most private firearms sales from the background check
requirement? That is whether you are at a gun show or in your backyard.
I assumed you knew that. There is not one that specifically exempts gun
shows.
Yep; but it's commonly referred to as the "gun show loophole", not the
"private sale loophole".
But that's not going to stop some idiot from stepping up for a straw-man
purchase ... at least until a straw-man purchaser gets life without parole
after a gun they bought for somebody else is used in a homicide.
Strawman purchases of firearms are illegal in all states.

What...you think its not????

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E
2012-12-28 13:43:07 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Too_Many_Tools
God Damn those fucking murdering Democrats!
Those firemen would be alive today if Democrats had simply
enforced the law.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/25/firefighter
s-shot-new-york-webster/1790293/
One of the weapons recovered was a .233-caliber semiautomatic
Bushmaster rifle with flash suppression, the same make and
caliber gun used in the Newtown, Conn., shootings.
WEBSTER, N.Y. -- Investigators combing the scene Tuesday of a
Christmas Eve ambush that killed two firefighters and injured
two others made a grisly discovery: another victim.
The body is believed to be that of Cheryl Spengler, 67, of
Webster. Police say her brother, William Spengler Jr., set a
deadly trap for first responders -- a plan he detailed in a
chilling note found at the scene.
The remains found the home were taken to the Medical Examiner's
Office for an autopsy. The cause of death was not immediately
known, Pickering said.
Armed with a Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle the same
weapon used in the Dec. 14 school massacre in Newtown, Conn. a
Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun and a .38 caliber Smith & Wesson
revolver and a stockpile of ammunition, Spengler Jr. set a
"clear ambush on first responders," Webster Police Chief Gerald
Pickering said at a news conference Tuesday.
Spengler used that arsenal to follow through on threats he made
in a typewritten note discovered not far from where police found
his body.
"I still have to get ready to see how much of the neighborhood I
can burn down and do what I like doing best: killing people,"
Spengler wrote in the note, which Pickering described as
rambling, two to three pages long, and did not address motive.
Spengler died Monday of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the
head.
The full note was not released by police.
"Motive is always the burning question," Pickering said at an
afternoon news conference. "I'm not sure we'll ever really know
what was going through his mind."
Spengler's attack killed volunteer firefighters Mike
Chiapperini, 43, and Tomasz Kaczowka, 19, and severely injured
firefighters Joseph Hofstetter, 33, and Theodore Scardino, 48,
who are in stable condition at Strong Memorial Hospital. An off-
duty Greece, N.Y., police officer, John Ritter, was injured by
shrapnel while attempting to protect the fallen firefighters
with his car. He was treated and has been released from an area
hospital. Pickering described his actions as heroic.
Roger Vercruysse of Rochester, N.Y., said he lived next door to
William and Cheryl Spengler, in 2005 and 2006.
He said Spengler was "nice," and was never in trouble while
Vercruysse knew him. But, he said, Spengler and his sister
clearly had a strained relationship.
"They never got along. He told me he did not care for her. And
when I asked him why, he got angry."
He loved his mother, and took her to the store and doctors."
Vercruysse also said Spengler "couldn't stand his sister" and
"stayed on one side of the house and she stayed on the other."
Pickering said it was not known which weapon Spengler used to
shoot the four firefighters.
"We're assuming it was the rifle, because of the distance." That
rifle, he said, was equipped with a flash suppressor, intended
to reduce the visibility of a shooter during firing.
Once police arrived near the scene, shortly after the 5:35 a.m.
fire call, "it was a combat condition," Pickering said. "They
were shooting at muzzle flash."
He also said it was not clear how many bullets were fired during
the predawn attack. But what was clear, Pickering said, was that
the first responding police officer exchanged gunfire with
Spengler and that officer's actions "saved many lives."
A portion of Lake Road on Tuesday afternoon remained closed to
traffic, though most residents are being allowed back into their
homes, and power has been largely restored.
Officials said they hope to reopen Lake Road to traffic late
Tuesday. They also plan to block off the burned homes with a
snow fence.
About a dozen investigators Tuesday sifted through the debris of
the seven houses destroyed by fire. Firefighters on Tuesday also
extinguished hotspots at two homes.
Pickering cautioned that people returning to their homes after
being evacuated by SWAT teams Monday may find that their doors
were kicked in. Locked homes in the area were searched for the
shooter during the chaos.
Monroe County Fire Coordinator Sam DeRosa said it was unclear
how long the fire investigation would take.
DeRosa also said officials "are working against the weather" and
a pending snowstorm.
Fire investigators are working to determine the cause and origin
of the blaze, which they said appeared to be intentionally set
by Spengler as a trap, he said.
"There were some brave actions by a lot of people yesterday,
both firefighters and individual police officers," said State
Police Maj. Mark Koss. "We'll do our best to see what motivated
this guy to do the things he did."
About 100 people attended an impromptu memorial vigil Monday
evening in Webster, a suburb of Rochester. Dozens of bouquets
were left at the fire station, along with a handwritten sign
that said, "Thanks for protecting us. RIP."
Authorities said Spengler hadn't done anything to bring himself
to their attention since his parole. As a convicted felon, he
wasn't allowed to possess weapons. Monroe County District
Attorney Sandra Doorley said Spengler led a very quiet life
after he got out of prison.
A friend said Spengler hated his sister. Roger Vercruysse lived
next door to Spengler and recalled a man who doted on his
mother, whose obituary suggested contributions to the West
Webster Fire Department.
STORY: 4 firefighters shot, 2 killed at Webster, N.Y., fire
The West Webster Fire District learned of the fire after a
report of a car and house on fire on Lake Road, on a narrow
peninsula where Irondequoit Bay meets Lake Ontario, Monroe
County Sheriff Patrick O'Flynn said.
Emergency radio communications capture someone saying he "could
see the muzzle flash coming at me" as Spengler carried out his
ambush. The audio posted on the website RadioReference.com has
someone reporting "firefighters are down" and saying "got to be
rifle or shotgun - high powered semi or fully auto."
Two of the firefighters arrived on a fire engine and two in
their own vehicles, Pickering said. After Spengler fired, one of
the wounded men fled, but the other three couldn't because of
flying gunfire.
The police officer who exchanged gunfire with Spengler "in all
likelihood saved many lives," Pickering said.
A police armored vehicle was used to recover two men, and
eventually it removed 33 people from nearby homes, the police
chief said. The gunfire initially kept firefighters from
battling the blazes.
The dead men were identified as police Lt. Michael Chiapperini,
43, the Webster Police Department's public information officer;
and 19-year-old Tomasz Kaczowka, also a 911 dispatcher.
Pickering described Chiapperini as a "lifetime firefighter" with
nearly 20 years in the department, and he called Kaczowka a
"tremendous young man."
Kaczowka's brother, reached at the family home Monday night,
said he didn't want to talk.
Hofstetter, also a full-timer with the Rochester Fire
Department, was hit once in the pelvis, and the bullet lodged in
his spine, authorities said. Scardino was hit in the chest and
knee.
Cathy Bartlett was at a vigil Monday night with her teenage son,
who was good friends with Kaczowka. Bartlett's husband, Mark
Bartlett, has been a firefighter there for 25 years but missed
the call this morning.
"Thank God my husband slept through the first alarm and didn't
get up until the second one went off," she said.
The shooting and fires were in a neighborhood of seasonal and
year-round homes set close together across the road from the
lakeshore. The area is popular with recreational boaters but is
normally quiet this time of year.
"We have very few calls for service in that location," Pickering
said. "Webster is a tremendous community. We are a safe
community, and to have a tragedy befall us like this is just
horrendous."
Gov. Andrew Cuomo said the State Police and Office of Emergency
Management were working with local authorities.
"Volunteer firefighters and police officers were injured and two
were taken from us as they once again answered the call of
duty," Cuomo said in a statement. "We as the community of New
York mourn their loss as now two more families must spend the
holidays without their loved ones."
Webster, a middle-class suburb, now is the scene of violence
linked to house fires for two Decembers in a row.
Last Dec. 7, authorities say, a 15-year-old boy doused his home
with gasoline and set it ablaze, killing his father and two
brothers, 16 and 12. His mother and 13-year-old sister escaped
with injuries. He is being prosecuted as an adult.
And the progressive's answer to murders involving guns is ?
wait............................................wait.............................................here
it
comes................................................................................................MORE
GUN LAWS !!! WOOOO-HOOOOOOOO !!
Stormin Mormon
2012-12-28 14:49:48 UTC
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Raw Message
Having failed to produce results, they redoubled their efforts.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Post by Too_Many_Tools
God Damn those fucking murdering Democrats!
Those firemen would be alive today if Democrats had simply
enforced the law.
And the progressive's answer to murders involving guns is ?
wait............................................wait.............................................here
it
comes................................................................................................MORE
GUN LAWS !!! WOOOO-HOOOOOOOO !!
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